Limit hold'em tournament river play

[GroovinMahoovinPartDeux]

Limit hold'em tournament, 100/200 stakes, nowhere near the money, bad player limps early, player new to the table raises, I 3 bet with AKo, bad player folds, raiser calls. Raiser check calls flop and turn, board on river is AQdxKdTd. On river other player checks. I have 400 left. Do I bet or check?

I think this is a pretty simple example of a bet in a cash game but a check in a tournament unless I have a particularly large stack, especially given that I only have 2 bets left on the river. In practice though I bet and the other player folded--I used to play tons of LHE tournaments but haven't played much recently, and was just playing this one for practice so I'm a little rusty.

[Craps Master]

It seems to me that it makes no difference. If this guy is a remotely competent player, I don't see how he could have a hand that beats you, and I also don't see how he could have a hand that pays you off. I think precisely $0 is going into the pot from him on the river. The only question is whether you want to see his hand for the price of having to show your hand. If so, check. If not, bet.

[PerpetualCzech]

I would bet but for reasons much different to the ones you guys are talking about. The 400 you would win by betting is more valuable to you than the 400 that you'd have left if you lost the pot (BB is 200 and coming up soon and no bubble factor yet since you aren't near the money). So you are getting pretty good odds on the bet.

[Craps Master]

Originally Posted by PerpetualCzech

I would bet but for reasons much different to the ones you guys are talking about. The 400 you would win by betting is more valuable to you than the 400 that you'd have left if you lost the pot (BB is 200 and coming up soon and no bubble factor yet since you aren't near the money). So you are getting pretty good odds on the bet.

He only wins an additional 200 if he bets and is called. And why would you think those chips would be more valuable than half of his remaining stack? If it mattered (which it doesn't, since the other guy is virtually never putting anymore money in the pot IMO).

[PerpetualCzech]

My bad, I read too quickly and was thinking No Limit. The point I was trying to make was that chips in a crippled stack that will need to be used for a BB soon are not as valuable as "regular chips" because they are probably going to be backing a random hand versus a premium one. So in a different situation where he has a shot at getting a call and winning the pot, he should have more of a tendency to bet.

[GroovinMahoovinPartDeux]

It may not have been clear but I was pretty far from the BB here, I think I was 2 off the button. So ignoring this specific hand and changing to a hand where I may actually get called by something but it's not an obvious value bet, you're saying there are scenarios where I'd bet with T400 left, check with T1000 left, and bet with T4000 left?

[Craps Master]

Originally Posted by PerpetualCzech

My bad, I read too quickly and was thinking No Limit. The point I was trying to make was that chips in a crippled stack that will need to be used for a BB soon are not as valuable as "regular chips" because they are probably going to be backing a random hand versus a premium one. So in a different situation where he has a shot at getting a call and winning the pot, he should have more of a tendency to bet.

This isn't exactly a premium hand anymore. He's almost certainly winning this pot. He's almost certainly not winning any additional money from betting.

Originally Posted by GroovinMahoovinPartDeux

It may not have been clear but I was pretty far from the BB here, I think I was 2 off the button. So ignoring this specific hand and changing to a hand where I may actually get called by something but it's not an obvious value bet, you're saying there are scenarios where I'd bet with T400 left, check with T1000 left, and bet with T4000 left?

I can't think of such a scenario. I think thinner value bets are always more viable the larger your stack gets, and that this is monotonically increasing.