WSOP thread

[PerpetualCzech]

Anyone playing can share their stories here so us poor slobs who can't make it can share in the experience at least a little bit.

For starters, I just had a buddy who is thinking of going ask me if I knew anything about the satellite structures. We found this (http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/tourney/tourneysatdetails.asp?groupid=607) on the WSOP website. It looks like all the satellites are NLHE except for the last one, HORSE. But does anyone know what the payout structure is like? I was speculating that top 10% of the field would win approx. 10 times the buyin but that's just a total guess.

[Craps Master]

I'll probably just be playing in the cash games. Maybe some of the single table satellites as well. I am, however, backing six people in a bunch of WSOP and DSE tournaments, so if any of them wins something big, I'll be sure to come here and brag about it.

[WarDekar]

I'll probably just be playing in the cash games. Maybe some of the single table satellites as well. I am, however, backing six people in a bunch of WSOP and DSE tournaments, so if any of them wins something big, I'll be sure to come here and brag about it.

So I guess in a couple months when we don't hear from you we can just assume you lost 100k+ :)

I'll be playing in about a dozen WSOP events, maybe some DSE depending on how quickly I come to hate poker.

[Craps Master]

So I guess in a couple months when we don't hear from you we can just assume you lost 100k+ :)

That's unlikely. More likely is that a few of my guys go deep in a few tournaments and I win or lose some insignificant amount. I'm only going to brag if the win is enormous.

[WarDekar]

You must not know many people that are (and/or have been) in the backing business...

[Craps Master]

You must not know many people that are (and/or have been) in the backing business...

Presumptuous as ever, I see. As of this post, I've partially or fully staked about 1,550 tournament entries. I don't anticipate that my ROI in the ~200 entries I back over the course of the WSOP and DSE is going to be markedly different than what I've been experiencing. So, unless I get lucky, you probably won't get to hear me brag about a huge WSOP win.

[WarDekar]

I know quite a few people that have lost well into 6-figures backing players for the summer... 200 MTT entries (which I highly doubt you'd get with 6 horses unless they're machines), with as big of fields as they are, is not a very big sample.

It's like the equivalent of a couple days of grinding MTTs online, and I assure you many a winning players have gone much longer than a few days losing online...

[Craps Master]

I know quite a few people that have lost well into 6-figures backing players for the summer... 200 MTT entries (which I highly doubt you'd get with 6 horses unless they're machines), with as big of fields as they are, is not a very big sample.
They definitely are machines. Seven day a week machines. Something you wouldn't know anything about, I imagine. The trouble is that when they reach day two of a major event, that generally precludes them from entering a new event on the same day that they have to return for day two. The 2nd chance evening events do a little to mitigate that, though. So, 200 is not totally unrealistic for 6 guys.

It's also possible these people weren't backing proven, long-term live MTT winners. I don't really know the first thing about the people you (claim to) know who have lost six figures backing people for the WSOP but, it's a very remote proposition that you'll be able to add me to that list anytime soon. You should note, though, that I don't plan on entering these guys into $10,000 events or (LOL) the $40,000 or $50,000 events, so that could be a big difference between my WSOP and those of the people you know. The ME is really just too much variance for me to stomach in the context of a multi-person staking arrangement.

And, finally, the fields aren't even that big in most of the tournaments (~2200 - 2700 for a $1500 - $2000 NLHE tourney, less for bigger stuff), and the pay schedule has been altered since last year. This year's payouts are less top-heavy than last year's.

It's like the equivalent of a couple days of grinding MTTs online, and I assure you many a winning players have gone much longer than a few days losing online...
It's not equivalent to that at all, and you should know why without me even having to explain (hint: ROI). It seems like I already schooled you and everyone else on this topic at LVA, so I'll just leave it at that for now. By my calculations (which, admittedly, are crude estimates based on limited information), losing six figures would be less than a 5% event for me at the 2009 WSOP. Unless, of course, I'm destined to continue my $80,000 late May downswing further into oblivion, in which case it's a forgone conclusion.

[WarDekar]

I didn't realize you wouldn't be doing the ME, which is obviously a huge factor (but per your ROI comment, you really SHOULD do the ME seeing as how it's by far the biggest ROI event of the year for an MTT player).

Yes, the guys I know were doing 10k, and 5k events, and had pieces of people in 50k, etc.. As far as not being the equivalent of a few days online, obviously yes your ROI will be higher in the WSOP events, but unless (I hear they did, but haven't looked yet ha) they dramatically improved the structures, I don't think ROIs are *THAT* much higher (outside of something like the ME, and the huge 1500s but again those have massive fields which you really have to place in the top fraction of a % to really make much).

Also I haven't looked at the payout structure for this year, so again that could affect my opinion on the matter. I really have no idea what your arrangements are obviously, but if most the events are the DSE and the 1500s and 2ks and nothing higher, then yes of course your chances of losing 100k are relatively low - I was obviously under the impression you would be putting all 6 in the ME (and again if you aren't, you should probably reconsider- just sell off part of the action to someone else, if they're good players, as they should be for you to stake them at all, then I'm sure you can get someone else to foot some of the risk).

Also, I'm not really sure when/where you "schooled" me on LVA... I generally remember always agreeing with you at LVA in poker threads- if anything it was probably you and I against the rest of the forum on the topic as I've always been an advocate of how soft WSOP (and MTTs in general) are.

[Craps Master]

Also I haven't looked at the payout structure for this year, so again that could affect my opinion on the matter. I really have no idea what your arrangements are obviously, but if most the events are the DSE and the 1500s and 2ks and nothing higher, then yes of course your chances of losing 100k are relatively low - I was obviously under the impression you would be putting all 6 in the ME (and again if you aren't, you should probably reconsider- just sell off part of the action to someone else, if they're good players, as they should be for you to stake them at all, then I'm sure you can get someone else to foot some of the risk).
I'm going higher than the $2,000 but not all the way to the $10,000 ME. I agree the EV is probably very good, but the BR requirement for staking people in an event like the ME is exorbitant, and the prospect of make up on $10,000 for six people grinding in much smaller tournaments seems unpleasant. And, yes, selling off ME action has crossed my mind; it just complicates things in the future if they do poorly and owe a bunch of different people money.

Also, I'm not really sure when/where you "schooled" me on LVA... I generally remember always agreeing with you at LVA in poker threads- if anything it was probably you and I against the rest of the forum on the topic as I've always been an advocate of how soft WSOP (and MTTs in general) are.
LVA doesn't seem to want to load the thread. It was the one about what top poker tournament players really make. But who cares anyway; that's old news.

[WarDekar]

Having good players in make-up isn't exactly a bad thing, and you should just sell off a set % of ME event action as a one tournament thing, no make-up for the outside investors. Obviously yes backing people in 10ks requires a pretty hefty BR.

[Craps Master]

Having good players in make-up isn't exactly a bad thing, and you should just sell off a set % of ME event action as a one tournament thing, no make-up for the outside investors. Obviously yes backing people in 10ks requires a pretty hefty BR.

I don't think people enjoy being in make up, and I don't enjoy it when people are in make up to me. I'm actually not convinced that people play as well when they're in make up, so, if I'm right about that (and that's a whole other topic) a big hit of negative variance can actually diminish EV in the medium term, and a big hit of positive variance means I almost certainly lose my horse (but I'd also be rich, so it'd be OK). That said, even if I sold off half the action on these guys for the ME, that's still $5,000 in a ~7,000+ person tournament. That's about 9-10x the number of people you'll see in the standard $5,000 NLHE fields at the WSOP, which would mean it's about triple the BR requirements (even with the larger expected ROI) of a standard $5,000 event. If I sell off more and more, it becomes less and less worth it for a potentially 7-day + FT months later event.

So, yeah, there's definitely some EV there, but it isn't going to be 100% worth it in all cases to enter a bunch of people into it. Given that they're probably going to want a shot at the glory, I'll probably try to arrange something, but there's no way I'll be taking all the action for the ME.

[MadLib]

0-1 -$1000.

Naturally I busted out in Level 10 for maximum wasting of time without cashing. Can't wait to do it again!

[Skinny Dynamite]

Anyone had a look at the Pinny ME props? Any value possible to be found or far too much of a coin flip? Some general props and last longers...
If it's such a flip, worth backing every dog paying better than +100 in the last longers?

[kgbted21]

I'll probably just be playing in the cash games. Maybe some of the single table satellites as well. I am, however, backing six people in a bunch of WSOP and DSE tournaments, so if any of them wins something big, I'll be sure to come here and brag about it.

I take it no one did well as we haven't seen the bragging?

[Craps Master]

I take it no one did well as we haven't seen the bragging?

Best I've gotten so far is a 4th place finish in a NLHE tournament at the WSOP, but I've got a guy going into day 3 at the ME. Other than that, I've had a bunch of cashes in the DSE and WSOP, but nothing huge.

[WarDekar]

Didn't everyone make Day 3 of the ME :)

Seriously though what a sick structure when a starting stack is 25BB going into day 3.

[kgbted21]

Best I've gotten so far is a 4th place finish in a NLHE tournament at the WSOP, but I've got a guy going into day 3 at the ME. Other than that, I've had a bunch of cashes in the DSE and WSOP, but nothing huge.

Did you go out to sweat your final table action?

[bfbagain]

LVA doesn't seem to want to load the thread. It was the one about what top poker tournament players really make. But who cares anyway; that's old news.

I don't remember that thread there, but I'd be interested in this if you'd care to provide a quick summary.

Thanks
bfb

[Craps Master]

Did you go out to sweat your final table action?
I've gone to sweat a couple of things. That particular FT was incredibly boring and it culminated in me almost puking when my horse took a 100% retarded beat.

I don't remember that thread there, but I'd be interested in this if you'd care to provide a quick summary.

Thanks
bfb

You can see it here (http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=277096&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=).

[Craps Master]

Best I've gotten so far is a 4th place finish in a NLHE tournament at the WSOP, but I've got a guy going into day 3 at the ME. Other than that, I've had a bunch of cashes in the DSE and WSOP, but nothing huge.

And now he's on to day 4 with an above average stack. They're still not to the money yet.

[kgbted21]

Is your horse still running?

[Craps Master]

Is your horse still running?

Nah. He made the money, but only made it up a couple of steps in the payout structure.