Craps Master
04-10-2009, 01:15 PM
Here are a few hands from some recent PLO sessions I had online. I'm not very good at PLO at all, quite bad in fact, but there were some fish around who are so awful that even an unlearned rookie like me can still get a big edge. So, here are some hands:
Hand 1:
(6 max) - $25/$50 - $2,000 Cap Pot Limit Omaha Hi
Seat 1: UTG ($1,735)
Seat 2: HJ ($1,750)
Seat 3: CO ($5,485)
Seat 4: BU ($8,370)
Seat 5: Villain ($26,190)
Seat 6: Craps Master ($9,629)
Villain posts the small blind of $25
Craps Master posts the big blind of $50
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Craps Master [2d 6d Jc 7c]
UTG folds
HJ adds $4,000
HJ folds
CO folds
BU raises to $100
Villain calls $75
Craps Master calls $50
*** FLOP *** [9d 7h Kd]
Villain checks
Craps Master checks
BU checks
*** TURN *** [9d 7h Kd] [Ad]
Villain checks
Craps Master bets $300
BU folds
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain calls $300
*** RIVER *** [9d 7h Kd Ad] [Ah]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain has requested TIME
Villain checks
Craps Master checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Craps Master shows [2d 6d Jc 7c] a flush, Ace high
Villain shows [Td 5d 2s Tc] a flush, Ace high
Villain wins the pot ($897) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $900 | Rake $3
Board: [9d 7h Kd Ad Ah]
Seat 1: UTG didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: HJ didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: CO didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: BU (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: Villain (small blind) showed [Td 5d 2s Tc] and won ($897) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: Craps Master (big blind) showed [2d 6d Jc 7c] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Note that in the cap games, the betting is capped at 40BBs or, in this case, $2,000. The marks in the hand are the Villain and the HJ. BU is new to the table but seems to play a questionable brand of poker as well, and I believe is generally a limit razz and O8 player, not a PLO player. Villain is a notorious calling station in both NLHE and PLO before the flop and on the flop, but often gives up on the turn or river. If he ever starts making pot bets or big raises, he almost always has something strong. So, anyway, I have questions about my play.
Preflop: I am under the impression that this is a standard call, seeing as how I'm double-suited and getting a great price.
Flop: Even though I've caught a draw, it's a terrible draw, so I see no reason to put money into the pot. It doesn't seem like a great spot to semi-bluff OOP against the PFR.
Turn: I've hit a flush, albeit a terrible one. I elected to bet it, but in hindsight, I have to wonder if this is even worth betting. What besides a better flush is ever going to call me here? Maybe a set would, but almost never two pair. Or should I just bet in hopes of taking it down and be happy with the pot? Would delaying a bet until the river be better?
River: I'm unenthusiastic about my hand after getting called on the turn, but Villain sometimes makes stupid calls. The river pairs the A, making the threat of a full house quite possible. Villain thinks a long time then finally checks. Is this a mandatory bluff spot, or does my hand have enough showdown value to just check behind? Also, if I were to make a pot sized bet here on the river, is the range I'm representing credible enough to actually get folds from anything weaker than a full house?
Hand 2:
This hand is not one of my proudest moments:
(deep 6) - $25/$50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi
Seat 1: Villain ($24,672)
Seat 2: BB ($6,647.50)
Seat 3: UTG ($8,538)
Seat 4: HJ ($5,863)
Seat 5: CO ($23,462)
Seat 6: Craps Master ($6,481.50)
Villain posts the small blind of $25
BB posts the big blind of $50
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Craps Master [Kc 4s Kd Ac]
UTG has 15 seconds left to act
UTG folds
HJ folds
CO has 15 seconds left to act
CO folds
Craps Master raises to $175
Villain calls $150
BB has 15 seconds left to act
BB calls $125
*** FLOP *** [2c 5c Jd]
Villain bets $525
BB folds
Craps Master raises to $2,100
Villain raises to $3,675
Craps Master has 15 seconds left to act
Craps Master calls $1,575
*** TURN *** [2c 5c Jd] [8d]
Villain bets $7,875
Craps Master adds $2,368.50
Craps Master folds
Uncalled bet of $7,875 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot ($7,872)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7,875 | Rake $3
Board: [2c 5c Jd 8d]
Seat 1: Villain (small blind) collected ($7,872), mucked
Seat 2: BB (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: UTG didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: HJ didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: CO didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Craps Master (button) folded on the Turn
The marks in this hand are the HJ (the villain from hand 1) and the SB, the villain in this hand. Both are characterized by playing loose and passively preflop, which isn't the sin in omaha that it is in hold'em, but they take it too far, routinely playing marginal hands OOP. That said, they play their big hands fast on later streets, but are still passive with marginal/speculative hands. The reason I'm not proud of this hand is that it represents one of the hazards of playing a lot of tables. In this session, I was switching in and out on a lot of table, playing both PLO and NLHE, and playing about 9 tables. I was so busy trying to track down these PLO marks that I didn't notice that this game was deep and not cap. My raise on the flop is precisely because I thought it was a cap game.
Preflop: Standard open OTB.
Flop: Here's where everything gets ugly. I am thinking that this is a cap game and that I'm going to just ship it on the flop with my overpair and NFD and be done with it but, to my surprise, the villain comes back with a reraise, at which point I realize what's going on. So now I'm a little flustered. I think about it and wonder just WTF the villain would come back at me with a mini-reraise with. I can't imagine it's a draw, so I have to figure I'm behind a set, which sets him up perfectly to bomb out on the turn on a safe card or force me all-in with the worst of it now. While there are certainly some retarded 2-pair hands in his range, because he's mega-loose preflop, would they play like this?
I conclude that I am probably up against a set, and probably top set at that. His min-reraise is designed to get me to continue on with worse hands. But, as it happens, I am getting 4.3:1 on my money, and I have 9 outs to the nuts and 2 outs to the nut flush on a paired board. Thus, folding is not an option, given that I would almost certainly get paid off if a K hits, and will often get paid off if a club hits. If the flush hits with one of the two cards that pairs the board and he moves in, I guess I can let it go. If he checks, I can check behind and see what happens on the river, or I could move in, hoping he isn't trapping me. Not entirely sure what I'd do there.
So, the question then is whether to just go ahead and move in here, just in case he's bluffing, or just call and use my position on the turn. I elected to call and then fold when I missed. If this were a hold'em type situation and I had the NFD, I'd obviously be getting all-in, but it's PLO, and so I wonder what people with PLO experience think is the better line.
Obviously, the best line would probably have been to just call the flop, which is what I would have done if I had realized I wasn't at a cap table. I'm not getting great odds to chase against made sets when calling a PSB, but I will be able to get paid handsomely on my two K outs, and I may even milk him for enough to justify drawing with my flush outs. What's more, if he slows down on the turn, I can either take the free card or try to push him out of the pot. I can also rep aces if an ace hits, or a straight if the board brings a running straight. Having the option of making a big raise on the turn or river and knocking him out of the pot definitely adds to the value of catching a card to improve.
I have a few more hands to post, but I'll just start with those. And, just to remind everyone, I realize I'm fucking terrible at PLO, but I'm never the worst player at the table in these games, not even close.
Hand 1:
(6 max) - $25/$50 - $2,000 Cap Pot Limit Omaha Hi
Seat 1: UTG ($1,735)
Seat 2: HJ ($1,750)
Seat 3: CO ($5,485)
Seat 4: BU ($8,370)
Seat 5: Villain ($26,190)
Seat 6: Craps Master ($9,629)
Villain posts the small blind of $25
Craps Master posts the big blind of $50
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Craps Master [2d 6d Jc 7c]
UTG folds
HJ adds $4,000
HJ folds
CO folds
BU raises to $100
Villain calls $75
Craps Master calls $50
*** FLOP *** [9d 7h Kd]
Villain checks
Craps Master checks
BU checks
*** TURN *** [9d 7h Kd] [Ad]
Villain checks
Craps Master bets $300
BU folds
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain calls $300
*** RIVER *** [9d 7h Kd Ad] [Ah]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain has requested TIME
Villain checks
Craps Master checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Craps Master shows [2d 6d Jc 7c] a flush, Ace high
Villain shows [Td 5d 2s Tc] a flush, Ace high
Villain wins the pot ($897) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $900 | Rake $3
Board: [9d 7h Kd Ad Ah]
Seat 1: UTG didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: HJ didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: CO didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: BU (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: Villain (small blind) showed [Td 5d 2s Tc] and won ($897) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: Craps Master (big blind) showed [2d 6d Jc 7c] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Note that in the cap games, the betting is capped at 40BBs or, in this case, $2,000. The marks in the hand are the Villain and the HJ. BU is new to the table but seems to play a questionable brand of poker as well, and I believe is generally a limit razz and O8 player, not a PLO player. Villain is a notorious calling station in both NLHE and PLO before the flop and on the flop, but often gives up on the turn or river. If he ever starts making pot bets or big raises, he almost always has something strong. So, anyway, I have questions about my play.
Preflop: I am under the impression that this is a standard call, seeing as how I'm double-suited and getting a great price.
Flop: Even though I've caught a draw, it's a terrible draw, so I see no reason to put money into the pot. It doesn't seem like a great spot to semi-bluff OOP against the PFR.
Turn: I've hit a flush, albeit a terrible one. I elected to bet it, but in hindsight, I have to wonder if this is even worth betting. What besides a better flush is ever going to call me here? Maybe a set would, but almost never two pair. Or should I just bet in hopes of taking it down and be happy with the pot? Would delaying a bet until the river be better?
River: I'm unenthusiastic about my hand after getting called on the turn, but Villain sometimes makes stupid calls. The river pairs the A, making the threat of a full house quite possible. Villain thinks a long time then finally checks. Is this a mandatory bluff spot, or does my hand have enough showdown value to just check behind? Also, if I were to make a pot sized bet here on the river, is the range I'm representing credible enough to actually get folds from anything weaker than a full house?
Hand 2:
This hand is not one of my proudest moments:
(deep 6) - $25/$50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi
Seat 1: Villain ($24,672)
Seat 2: BB ($6,647.50)
Seat 3: UTG ($8,538)
Seat 4: HJ ($5,863)
Seat 5: CO ($23,462)
Seat 6: Craps Master ($6,481.50)
Villain posts the small blind of $25
BB posts the big blind of $50
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Craps Master [Kc 4s Kd Ac]
UTG has 15 seconds left to act
UTG folds
HJ folds
CO has 15 seconds left to act
CO folds
Craps Master raises to $175
Villain calls $150
BB has 15 seconds left to act
BB calls $125
*** FLOP *** [2c 5c Jd]
Villain bets $525
BB folds
Craps Master raises to $2,100
Villain raises to $3,675
Craps Master has 15 seconds left to act
Craps Master calls $1,575
*** TURN *** [2c 5c Jd] [8d]
Villain bets $7,875
Craps Master adds $2,368.50
Craps Master folds
Uncalled bet of $7,875 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot ($7,872)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7,875 | Rake $3
Board: [2c 5c Jd 8d]
Seat 1: Villain (small blind) collected ($7,872), mucked
Seat 2: BB (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: UTG didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: HJ didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: CO didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Craps Master (button) folded on the Turn
The marks in this hand are the HJ (the villain from hand 1) and the SB, the villain in this hand. Both are characterized by playing loose and passively preflop, which isn't the sin in omaha that it is in hold'em, but they take it too far, routinely playing marginal hands OOP. That said, they play their big hands fast on later streets, but are still passive with marginal/speculative hands. The reason I'm not proud of this hand is that it represents one of the hazards of playing a lot of tables. In this session, I was switching in and out on a lot of table, playing both PLO and NLHE, and playing about 9 tables. I was so busy trying to track down these PLO marks that I didn't notice that this game was deep and not cap. My raise on the flop is precisely because I thought it was a cap game.
Preflop: Standard open OTB.
Flop: Here's where everything gets ugly. I am thinking that this is a cap game and that I'm going to just ship it on the flop with my overpair and NFD and be done with it but, to my surprise, the villain comes back with a reraise, at which point I realize what's going on. So now I'm a little flustered. I think about it and wonder just WTF the villain would come back at me with a mini-reraise with. I can't imagine it's a draw, so I have to figure I'm behind a set, which sets him up perfectly to bomb out on the turn on a safe card or force me all-in with the worst of it now. While there are certainly some retarded 2-pair hands in his range, because he's mega-loose preflop, would they play like this?
I conclude that I am probably up against a set, and probably top set at that. His min-reraise is designed to get me to continue on with worse hands. But, as it happens, I am getting 4.3:1 on my money, and I have 9 outs to the nuts and 2 outs to the nut flush on a paired board. Thus, folding is not an option, given that I would almost certainly get paid off if a K hits, and will often get paid off if a club hits. If the flush hits with one of the two cards that pairs the board and he moves in, I guess I can let it go. If he checks, I can check behind and see what happens on the river, or I could move in, hoping he isn't trapping me. Not entirely sure what I'd do there.
So, the question then is whether to just go ahead and move in here, just in case he's bluffing, or just call and use my position on the turn. I elected to call and then fold when I missed. If this were a hold'em type situation and I had the NFD, I'd obviously be getting all-in, but it's PLO, and so I wonder what people with PLO experience think is the better line.
Obviously, the best line would probably have been to just call the flop, which is what I would have done if I had realized I wasn't at a cap table. I'm not getting great odds to chase against made sets when calling a PSB, but I will be able to get paid handsomely on my two K outs, and I may even milk him for enough to justify drawing with my flush outs. What's more, if he slows down on the turn, I can either take the free card or try to push him out of the pot. I can also rep aces if an ace hits, or a straight if the board brings a running straight. Having the option of making a big raise on the turn or river and knocking him out of the pot definitely adds to the value of catching a card to improve.
I have a few more hands to post, but I'll just start with those. And, just to remind everyone, I realize I'm fucking terrible at PLO, but I'm never the worst player at the table in these games, not even close.