What Types of Advantage Players Are Happy?

[kimlee]

Some types of advantage players seem to be unhappy. For example, blackjack player Kevin Blackwood seems wistful about his career's lack of meaningful contribution. I attribute this to the fact that he played solo for twenty years. It must really suck to leave your family and travel alone, suffering losing streaks and rejection while surreptitiously and monotonously counting.

Many young poker players seem happy. They move into a group house with a bunch of other young players. Then they learn new games, play live, and travel to tournaments to meet new friends.

In contrast some of the internet players here seem miserable. I can understand why. They are glued to a screen with no human interaction. Remember Wynn dealers were miserable two years ago despite making double the tips of other properties. The reason is they were all tired of working six days per week to get their share before the party ended. So I can understand poker guys working overtime now.

Sports seems like a mixture. Analyzing new bets is fun. Shopping lines all day seems unfulfilling. It also seems unmotivating to spend half your time handicapping if you are making 90% of your money from obvious bookie mistakes. The social aspect seems underrated.

[WarDekar]

What types of people in life are are happy?

[deadball]

Definite difference for me sitting in front of computers vs being out in the casinos. Now that football is over I'm out and about and comparitively, am
much happier. Could be just me but I have a similar problem playing VP vs table games. VP is a chore that I do not look forward to while working the
tables is a different story. It is not surprising that poker players are a pretty content lot even though that "chained to the chair" feeling is still there
to some extent.

Among sports bettors, I know guys who prefer being the runner vs
being in the chair directing traffic and I can understand that completely.

[Craps Master]

I was happier before I opened this thread and saw yet another retarded kimlee post.

[LVHCM1]

Some types of advantage players seem to be unhappy. For example, blackjack player Kevin Blackwood seems wistful about his career's lack of meaningful contribution. I attribute this to the fact that he played solo for twenty years. It must really suck to leave your family and travel alone, suffering losing streaks and rejection while surreptitiously and monotonously counting.


Kevin Blackwood should be miserable, he's a douchebag. And he didn't play solo his whole career, he played for Andrulis for quite a while.

[Craps Master]

Kevin Blackwood should be miserable, he's a douchebag. And he didn't play solo his whole career, he played for Andrulis for quite a while.

Even still, he's not the self-described "world's most miserable blackjack player." That honor goes to someone else.

[LVHCM1]

Even still, he's not the self-described "world's most miserable blackjack player." That honor goes to someone else.

LVBear?

[LVHCM1]

Wait, it's gotta be Pete The Whiner!

[Craps Master]

Wait, it's gotta be Pete The Whiner!

Yeah, but only because he has never met J.T. Chump.

[Jeff Jones]

You may have answered your own "happiness" question in another of your posts from another thread.

I visited Vegas with my wife's poor social worker/teacher friends. She took them to pool their money on a 50-line quarter video poker machine, $62.50 per spin. They each put in $20 and lost several times, quickly running out of money and confidence. The poor ones felt bad, and my wife felt even worse because she had led her friends to quickly lose all their discretionary money. Then they were dealt a natural 3-of-a-kind which recouped all their losses plus a small gain. I think the payout was only around $250. But they were so happy and relieved to win that the group of women screamed and jumped around. A small crowd gathered because everyone thought the women had hit Megabucks or something.

When's the last time you got that happy over winning?

Sometimes the "happiness" trumps the "advantage.."

[Jeff Jones]

And another thing.

LVHCM1 seems to post more here than on his own site, LVA. That's not a problem; the moderators at RTP don't feel threatened.

But it is curious that the Manager of the New York Yankees would want to play utility infielder for the Boston Red Sox.

[PerpetualCzech]

What WarDeker said. Basically what (I think) he's implying is that isn't a question that especially more relevant for a sports bettor over any other profession. There are plenty of jobs out there that share similar attributes to say, sports betting, such as spending lots of time in front of the computer. Some types of people like that and some don't. Personally I tend to get into moods where one month I enjoy it and the next I hate it. Unfortunately I'm in a bit of a hating period right now.

Above all, I value the fact that I am free to make my own schedule and answer to no one. If drawing up a Pros vs Cons list I'm pretty sure most APs would put this near the top of their Pros.

[Jeff Jones]

Make your own schedule, OK. Answering to nobody, not quite.

Sports gamblers answer to umpteen, young, not so scholarly variables every night.

[WarDekar]

Yeah I was on my phone posting or I would've elaborated a little more I guess.

My point was happiness is what you make of it. Am I happy in every moment of my life sportsbetting/playing poker/whatever? Of course not.

Does doing it allow me to lead a happier life than if I were slaving away for XYZ Computer Corp? Of course.

As PC said the ability to make my own schedule and not to have to answer to anyone (some of you might get a LOL on that one) is what makes me do it. I do enjoy certain aspects (read: theoretical market stuff) of sports betting, do I enjoy sweating games? Not really. Does it make me happy to have my BR fluctuate as much as it does? Not really. Do I feel fulfilled in life? Maybe not entirely, but all in all these are just issues that come with the job, and in fact a lot of jobs (maybe not variance/fluctuation, but a sense of fulfillment, etc.) and sports bettors/APs struggle with the same things as any other person does.

Would teaching a bunch of lazy, spoiled, Americans at Uni make me happy? Most certainly fucking not. What type of teachers are happy, Kim Lee? Personally I'd say the Unhappy:Happy ratio for teachers is WAYYYY higher than for APs, as APs would simply just stop doing what they're doing and find something else whereas teachers get locked into their profession and slave away teaching (I use the term loosely) a bunch of kids that are really just there because Mommy and Daddy told them they had to and now they spend their book money on booze.

[Jeff Jones]

I think what the Shrinks will tell you, is that if you need to spend this much anonymous introspection publicly attacking another group (in this case, the "lesser" teachers), you probably still have a few "happiness" (if not other) issues to resolve.

[WarDekar]

I was merely jabbing at Kim Lee, since he jabbed at us.

I have nothing against teachers, other than the horrible ones in the public school system that yell at students (me) for reading ahead in a book (I'm still scarred from my 6th grade teacher yelling at me in class for READING).

And really I was making a statement on the current state of American Unis more than the teachers that inhabit them. There are plenty of great professors out there, but the sad fact is there is also quite a few of them (at major universities mostly) that are there for research and really don't care about their students, and it shows.

[kimlee]

I was merely jabbing at Kim Lee, since he jabbed.

I wasn't jabbing, didn't feel jabbed, and won't teach for at least six months.

Pimary/secondary education is like invading Iraq - you need boots on the ground. The U.S. high school graduation rate is only 70% (90% in suburbs and 50% in the cities). School teachers are also babysitters, cops, social workers, and college counselors. When you throw in some intrusive parents and political interfering school boards, it's quite a challenge. Teachers must love the psychological rewards of helping kids, and I respect that.

I understand WarDekar's frustration with university teaching. But undergrads make the mistake of thinking a university is primarily there for them. A university is governed by a board of trustees, the officials, and faculty. In addition to professors and students, their constituencies include donors, the global research community, the local community, alumni, and future students. Heck, they even operate minor league sports franchises.

There are plenty of good four-year teaching colleges like Harvey Mudd. There are expensive, high-service, low-pressure schools like Brown or Bennington (no grades). And there are economical places like WarDekar's university. WarDekar's university has world experts on most subjects. He could have sought them out and challenged himself. It is his own fault if he took easy classes. Really that place is quite cheap when you compare to the value of your time, the school resources, or the expertise of professors.

Research and teaching are like sin and confession. If you don't do one then you have nothing to say in the other. Top researchers can't devote their time to teaching (and vice versa). If you want to learn from the experts then you must compromise.

Back to advantage players. Some posters are terribly cranky with a superior attitude. This infects LVASports generally. I've been ridiculed for not knowing the history of the Groovin/Fezzik handle or other trivia. It gives me the impression that some guys are bitter and feel smart because they can beat one card poker, low limit hold'em, or minimum wage sports clerks. They need to get out more!

[TJMAXX]

i kind of like this kim lee guy, but don't get some of his obsessions.

I really enjoyed some of the enlightening subjects in undergrad, had some amazing professors who were true experts in their field(s), but fuck me if you get a goddamn lower grade in a 400 level finance class for expressing your opinions of the many horrific defects of goddamn efficient market theory. Fuck their rigid curriculum too.

However, meat market bars with hot ass sorority sisters and staying up all night drinking and playing dominoes while learning the names of the bums and the newspaper delivery guy were invaluable life skills.

[WarDekar]

WarDekar's university has world experts on most subjects. He could have sought them out and challenged himself. It is his own fault if he took easy classes.

I completely agree that I could have sought them out and challenged myself, and I wish I had. I've contemplated going to get a graduate degree in CS since I didn't really do much the first time around.

As for taking easy classes- HA!!! I honestly took about as challenging of a curriculum was possible for CS undergrads, and while it wasn't incredibly difficult for someone good with computers on their own, I believe the drop out rate in the program was far above 50% of first-year students. I was in one of the tougher undergrad programs, I wasn't in the business school taking multiple choice tests (sorry business guys, but I harp on business students mostly because 95% of my friends were business students).

Also as far as seeking out professors, that will work sometimes but I also had profs that none of the students EVER saw, and they didn't have open office hours or anything. Essentially the entire course was taught by TAs. Naturally these were the profs doing crazy computer research and were only there for the use of the super computers on campus.

The problem was for me, I wanted to go to a CS school, which basically has to be a large university to have the facilities. My best options, or at least what appeared to be my best options, were Berkley, MIT, Illinois. My parents didn't want me to go to Berkley, there was about a .5% chance I could get into MIT, and Illinois was close and I was under the impression it was going to be good for me.

Well of course I ended up just experiencing the Big Ten Party School college life, which I can't regret, but is also why I want to go back. I feel like there are a lot of students like me, that maybe weren't ready for college because we weren't mature enough for it or whatever else. I'm not blaming anyone but myself, but at the same time it's become part of American culture that you *must* go to college immediately after HS. This leads to a ton of 18 year old KIDS going off and living together with no supervision for the first time, and what you end up getting are places like Illinois which are 95% in-state students (because as you know, colleges are businesses and hey it helps them to pack 'em in regardless of quality), but half don't even know WHY they're there.

Anyway enough of my ranting, clearly I'm just bitter that I blew an opportunity in my life, but I really do feel there are deep rooted problems in our education system. That said I have a tremendous amount of respect for a lot of teachers in the trenches. One depressing thing though, I've had several friends do Teach for America that were incredibly enthusiastic about it leaving college, but after they did it got fed up with the bureaucracy and hoops they had to jump through and went into policy things instead.

I do find what they're doing in New Orleans to be fascinating, I hope it works out...

[Craps Master]

I wasn't jabbing, didn't feel jabbed, and won't teach for at least six months.

Back to advantage players. Some posters are terribly cranky with a superior attitude. This infects LVASports generally. I've been ridiculed for not knowing the history of the Groovin/Fezzik handle or other trivia. It gives me the impression that some guys are bitter and feel smart because they can beat one card poker, low limit hold'em, or minimum wage sports clerks. They need to get out more!

I don't think you could be anymore transparent. It's doubly insulting when you're being incredibly hypocritical in the process.

Anyway, speaking of needing to get out more, maybe you should go to virtually any message board on the internet. You will see the exact same behavior exhibited that you see at LVA Sports, bj21, or any other gambling forum. It's not hard to find argumentative, condescending people online. Here (http://www.big-boards.com/) is a list of the largest message boards online; go pick any one of those in the top 25, start a thread like this, and see how much you get flamed.

As to your question about which advantage players are the happiest, I'd say it's probably the ones who had loving parents and who suffered the least abuse and trauma as children. There's probably some correlation with success as well (albeit only to a certain point), because being an unsuccessful advantage player is pretty miserable.

[PerpetualCzech]

Here (http://www.sportsbettingforaliving.com/) is a blog that might be relevant to this discussion. The blogger posts/posted at BC and LVA as "iceman". He seems perfectly happy but I can also imagine a type of person that wouldn't be able to handle a routine or a grind like that (not long-term, anyway).

[kimlee]

don't get some of [Kim Lee's] obsessions.

One of my obsessions is hating touts who sell picks or exaggerate their expertise to build their egos. In both cases the losses they cause are disproportionate to their gains. WarDekar brought up education.

I ... could have ... challenged myself, and ... I'm not blaming anyone but myself.

I wasn't in the business school taking multiple choice tests.

I've had several friends do Teach for America that were incredibly enthusiastic about it leaving college, but after they did it got fed up.

I really like the way WarDekar takes responsibility. It's too bad his education was hampered by students like TJMAXX.


staying up all night drinking ... .

you get a goddamn lower grade in a 400 level finance class for expressing your opinions.


GMAFB. You can raise your grade by merely showing up and taking enough interest to have an opinion. However, tests are about the material. When they ask about definitions or evidence, they are soliciting documentation of your knowledge, not a drunken, uninformed opinion.

Few professors had business majors. Business is not a good undergrad major because it is a broad vocation, but a single subject. It is possible to get a good education in a business curriculum, but it is also possible to avoid anything in-depth.

The evidence is not favorable for putting random well-intentioned college grads into classrooms without much preparation.
TFA Chews Up Another (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30911)

[marcoforte]

Being happy is what you make of it. I have a six figure + income and am at the top of my profession with nowhere to go. People would say I'm happy being there but I'm not. For me, NFL betting is a mountain I climb every year. As an "originator", I spend the off-season honing my computer models. The math and computer skills hone me for my real full-time job. The season validates my thinking or not. Most seasons it does. I get pumped every season. Am I happy? Yes.

[WarDekar]

LOL nice Onion article, never read that one before.

Here's an article on the New Orleans system post-Katrina for anyone that hasn't heard/read about it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/magazine/17NewOrleans-t.html

[TJMAXX]

I had a solid A (setting the curve) the whole semester and then the bitch gave me an A-.

Besides, we only drank copiously four (well, sometimes five) out of seven nights :)

[LVHCM1]

Anyway, speaking of needing to get out more, maybe you should go to virtually any message board on the internet. You will see the exact same behavior exhibited that you see at LVA Sports, bj21, or any other gambling forum. It's not hard to find argumentative, condescending people online. Here (http://www.big-boards.com/) is a list of the largest message boards online; go pick any one of those in the top 25, start a thread like this, and see how much you get flamed.



That's an interesting list. I've frequented two of them, bodybuilding.com maybe twice a year (btw, 30 members?) and 4chan (sup /b/?), which is great for laughs and extreme pics.

Most popular message boards follow the same dynamic - they get popular by being informative and funny at the same time, then cliques form, breakaway boards start, and now they all suck for various reasons. We're seeing this now with the sports forums.

The blackjack boards did the same thing several years ago. Wong's site was THE place for blackjack players to be in the late 90's. Sure enough, cliques formed, new boards started, and coupled with the general deterioration of the game in general for recreationalists, all the boards are horrible for one reason or another.

[Craps Master]

Most popular message boards follow the same dynamic - they get popular by being informative and funny at the same time, then cliques form, breakaway boards start, and now they all suck for various reasons. We're seeing this now with the sports forums.

The blackjack boards did the same thing several years ago. Wong's site was THE place for blackjack players to be in the late 90's. Sure enough, cliques formed, new boards started, and coupled with the general deterioration of the game in general for recreationalists, all the boards are horrible for one reason or another.
To be fair, I'm here and not at LVA because that site's software is terrible and it lags something fierce. Also, Wong's board got really gay because of Wong and, not to mention, the secrecy inherent in high-level +EV blackjack doesn't allow for a lot of meaningful discussion on the topic; there's only so many times you can discuss the RoR for using hi/lo in an n-deck game with a spread of 1-m before it gets old. Really old.

[daringly]

I really enjoy my profession. I big part of that is de-emphasizing the grind, and focusing on what I enjoy. I could certainly make more money if I worshiped the screen, and made the creation of wealth my object... But that is secondary.

My primary goals are to enjoy life and exercise my brain by studying interesting things. Sports modeling coincides with both of these. It's a little frustrating sometimes... with your goal being to make money, your time is best spent chasing numbers or beating the hell out of derivatives (including parlay cards). This is boring though. I hated the grind, and finally found a better way. My group pretty much lets me ignore "the suck", and focus on whatever I want, as long as it will generate revenue at some point. Now I focus more on what I enjoy - handicapping. The one compromise I make is focusing on non-sexy stuff. No more NFL or NBA... CFB, Arena (*sigh) and now WNBA. Or underwater basket weaving, or whatever else is obscure.

[MadLib]

To be fair, I'm here and not at LVA because that site's software is terrible and it lags something fierce. Also, Wong's board got really gay because of Wong and, not to mention, the secrecy inherent in high-level +EV blackjack doesn't allow for a lot of meaningful discussion on the topic; there's only so many times you can discuss the RoR for using hi/lo in an n-deck game with a spread of 1-m before it gets old. Really old.

At least that topic has some relevancy - for every thread like that there are 10 involving some green (or red LOL) chipper asking about the "heat" for their prospective 1-4 spread on some shitty double deck game. I think like five posters there have some reasonable level of +EV.

[kimlee]

[red chippers] asking about the "heat" for their prospective 1-4 spread on some shitty double deck game.

Funny stuff. They breathlessly share adventures and advice: bet red chips, tip generously, and run whenever a floor manager glances to avoid being back-roomed and tortured.

Their popular award-winning posts include how to become a professional with a $10K bankroll and how to arrest casino security for false arrest. Stanford admitted he is a lifetime loser at casino craps (nevermind SSB).

[daringly]

Their popular award-winning posts include how to become a professional with a $10K bankroll and how to arrest casino security for false arrest. Stanford admitted he is a lifetime loser at casino craps (nevermind SSB).

I started with 5k. Everyone's gotta start somewhere... Although I kept my job for 3 more years after I started.

[GoldenVision]

I think like five posters there have some reasonable level of +EV.

That number sure sounds a little high.